Comments Received From the Climbing Community | ||
| 14 In Favor, 38 Opposed | ||
| I am for this proposal. | ||
| I am against this proposal | ||
| Well placed for rappel, good for a belay if equalized with nuts in the crack behind the tree. The only question I'd have would be to how frequently folks only do the first pitch of these routes. The second pitches are short and enjoyable, and allow a secure return to the base via the aforementioned rappel down Washington Irving. Must we have a safe bolted escape belay from every pitch of every climb? | ||
| I would agree if the tree were the only anchor available but it is not. There are several nut and cam placements that provide a good belay. Adding bolts would turn this great two-pitch climb into a toprope. This would not be ideal. | ||
| I do not support the proposed action as I would consider this to be a "trad climb" that continues to the top of the cliff. The natural anchor atop p1 is in a crack and bombproof. | ||
| I do not support the proposal. Chianti is a two-pitch climb, both pitches being of about equal difficulty. If you can climb the first pitch, you can climb the second pitch. And, natural anchors are abundant and safe. This, IMHO, is a convenience anchor and is not needed. | ||
| I do not support this proposal. I believe this is a repeat of a prior proposal not approved. It is unnecessary. Most folks do not belay off the tree. Few folks only climb P1. | ||
| Yes, Chianti is a two-pitch climb. Yes, there is great natural gear at this spot. But the fact is that people rappel off this tree nearly every day of the year. I know I've taken a deep breath and rapped off it several times. Someday it's going to pull and someone will die. I guess I don't have a problem with this area being used for more toproping -- it's already one of the most heavily used beginner-intermediate areas in the canyon. To me it's worth a bit of compromise to save a tree and, eventually, probably, save a life. | ||
| P.S. This anchor also serves the first pitch of Break on Through, which many people would do as a one-pitch climb, as well as other topropes in the area. | ||
| P.S. This anchor also serves the first pitch of Break on Through, which many people would do as a one-pitch climb, as well as other topropes in the area. | ||
| From my perspective, these are two pitch climbs with natural gear anchors at the top of P1 (not to mention another larger tree up and to the left on a small perch). The tree provides a good enough escape if needed. | ||
| We need to try to keep as many trad lines around as possible, they a disappering at an alarming rate. There are plenty of topropes around already, by putting bolts on this you will make the line a single pitch climb that some people will put up and do laps on for hours at a time. | ||
| This anchor is not needed, as such i do not support this proposal | ||
| I do not think a rap anchor is needed. I have done this climb and others around it and never felt the need for bolts. You can rap from the top via the rap anchors next to the Unsaid. If you don't want to top out then don't climb the route. If you want to risk using the tree then do so, knowing it may come out and you may die. These types of decisions is what climbing in Eldo is about. Not for everyone, I agree. | ||
| When was the last time you heard of someone dying because a tree "pulled"? However, I do regret damage to these trees. I propose talking to an arborist about how we can wrap the base of trees like this to protect the bark. Also, people need to learn to be less emotionally "attached" to their gear... it's only gear. If you have to bail, slot some nuts, sling some webbing, get home safe and maybe spend $40 to replace your gear. If you are spending money on gear, it means you are still alive. | ||
| This is a difficult one. There sure is good reason for and against. I agree there is good gear there, the tree does get used, but if an "anchor" is put there it will get top roped. I'm all for saving a tree and possibly a life, but it is a "trad" area, and I think this one should stay that way. | ||
| Bolts are oftend proposed to make things safer, when in fact, their primary purpose is to make things easier. Every pitch should not have bolts at the top of it. The top of the cliff is 50 feet away - go for it! You can do it! ; 90 feet from good gear of rapping and you'll be on the ground. Climbing is not always convenient. Please, let's not bolt the top of every 5.8 because we're bored! | ||
| Continued use of the tree as a rap anchor will assuredly kill the tree. It does not appear that one can force the use of any other existing solution for a rap anchor. I suggest that installation of the proposed bolts is more desirable than the loss of the tree. | ||
| People do bail from here. I do not know why for the 2nd pitch is a good one. In time maybe the tree can not survive. Is that a good reason to make this a toprope? I think not. | ||
| it's good to see that climbers continue to allow the abuse of trees. i mean why fill a canyon with safe reliable bolts when you can continue to kill natural plants instead. after all...i did it that way! | ||
| The tree was put there for a reason, so use it! If you're into the tree huggin' thing, then set up an anchor...there a many places to do so. If you feel the tree is 'unsafe' then stick to sport routes. Putting bolts on this pitch is lame. | ||
| Not a good idea. | ||
| Everyone that I know does this climb because of the quality of the second pitch, so why would they want a bolted anchor after the first pitch, when a bomber gear anchor is available? To bail off in case of weather, injury, time, etc...If you're bailing for these reasons, it is expected to have to leave gear when in a trad area. The only real reason for putting an anchor here is to easily top rope the first pitch. That is not a good reason for the anchor. Please leave this anchor at the hardware store. | ||
| I am always in favor of saving trees otherwise at risk in Eldo. This is a popular climb and should have a rappel set up for 60 M rope. | ||
| The guide book clearly states the facts for everyone to assess their level of comfort of commitment. Also, consider the danger of rappelling off only the tree, leave gear if in an emergency, climb another 40ft. to complete the climb. Embrace the adventure and commitment necessary to climb Chianti in Eldorado Canyon, Colorado. | ||
| A bolted anchor is not necessary here. There is no safety concern that bolts would fix. Build a bomber gear anchor. Don't use the tree. Do both pitches. The proposal for bolts is only for the sake of convenience. Climbers who want convenience can go to the sport park. | ||
| The bolts here would be unobtrusive. Safety is now a bigger issue in Eldo than continuing to pretend it's a seldom used wilderness in danger of disappearing. It's one of the world's most hevaily used climbing areas and that's the agreed use. It's the plants that are in danger. The bolt site on Chianti will be used possibly forever. The tree will last longer with the bolts, fewer decades without. Save the rock, the tree, or a human? | ||
| P.S. More and more people will do just the 1st pitch regardless of the qual of pitch 2 on this route due to A. increase in activity in this area B. increase in climbers seeking this level of climbing in the canyon C. unpredictable weather D. human condition (fatigue, imjury, etc.) | ||
| Not a good idea. It alters the character of the route. The "Save the tree" excuse by placing bolts does not fly. Climbers are inherently responsible for respecting and preserving vegetation and we need to be more vigilant in our efforts to do so. | ||
| Not a good idea. It alters the character of the route. The "Save the tree" excuse by placing bolts does not fly. Climbers are inherently responsible for respecting and preserving vegetation and we need to be more vigilant in our efforts to do so. | ||
| i am against this proposal. The climb goes to the top. Must we always try and dumb down the climbing experiance. People have been doing this climb for many years with no problem. Go to the top or be prepared to leave gear to retreat. | ||
| i am not in favor of the idea. Not needed. | ||
| If people are dim-witted enough to start up in bad weather then they should leave stoppers when they rappel. Top-roping should not be encouraged. I'm interested in the FHRC's 3rd point: putting an anchor in mid-pitch...... they/you did exactly this on Peanuts not too long ago. FHRC should camo the many Eldo bolts that aren't. | ||
| I think the anchor is a good idea if the bolts are vertically aligned. | ||
| Regarding question 2 of the application, "Does the proposed anchor replace an unsightly wad of webbing?", the applicant states, "No, at present (May 2004) the tree has no slings around it." So in other words it seems that this tree is rarely used as a rappel anchor, else there would be established slings in place. The proposal is futher weakened by the fact that there are other gear placements available.It seems to me that the sole purpose of this anchor is a convenience anchor for parties who want to TR several pitches in the area, without having to leave the base. I vote strongly against. | ||
| I do not support this proposal. Establishing this bolt anchor will only encourage people to use this as a single pitch top-rope climb and this deracts from the established character of this route which is that of a traditional climb. | ||
| I do not support the addition of a bolt anchor on this climb. This is Eldo, I beg that you stop littering this magical place with bolts. Please, please, please do not add this anchor, it is simply not necessary. Leave a wedge in addition to the tree if retreating due to weather or lack of ability or any other reason. | ||
| Poor tree anchors do not kill climbers. Lack of good judgement does. It should not be the job of the climbing community at large to make routes "idiot proof". I certainly agree that we should do whatever we can to preserve the vegetation on routes. Awareness of the climbers' impact on existing vegetation is part of the bigger appreciation of the natural world and our interaction with it as climbers. The climbing community should foster this appreciation in those folks who don't show the proper respect. Given that damage to the tree is easily avoided with a bit of mindfulness, the proposed anchor would only further the spread of the gym mentality on our crags. | ||
| not a good idea | ||
| I don't like the idea. This climb offers an excellent opportunity for a fairly stiff first-multi-pitch-5.8 complete with descent which has to be found. Welcome to real climbing! Leave the bolts out of it, and let people approach this climbing (and traditional climbing in general) with the respect and maybe even trepidation it deserves. | ||
| The tree will live longer with the bolts in place. | ||
| No, no, no. The reason for this proposal is toproping convienence. Good gear placements nearby negate the save the tree/save a human life argument. Toprope the Unsaid, toprope Mescaline, toperope 50 other pitches on the West Ridge. Not everything needs to be a toprope. | ||
| Here is a good reason not to, View the ACE Archive: #65 Route: new anchors above Chianti 5.8+ 1st pitch, West Ridge Hardware: 2 bolts to save tree Applicant: ACE FHRC: not recommended Reason: natural anchors present, most do not use tree If a bail anchor is necessary (and it is not), it should serve climbs in an area, there are at least two that end on this slab. It should not be usable as a TR anchor, as this changes the nature of the climbing. This is an unecessary (and a bad location for) a safety anchor. | ||
| I am against. Why put bolts that will only help topropers or climbers who need to bail? | ||
| Just climbed break on through two weeks ago- saw the tape job marking the proposed bolts- both my partner and I were appalled at the idea. We did not use the tree- we built an anchor with the copious gear options available! Completely unnecessary convenience anchor. There's already a bolted rapell 20' to the climber's right on Washington Irving for bailing off the top. If you need to bail because of a storm- easily done leaving a couple of nuts and some slingage... absolutely no reason to use the tree. It's a complete waste of time to even consider this. | ||
| I don't support the proposal. I think the second pitch of Chianti, although short, is the reason to do the climb. I don't think enough people bail off after the first pitch to warrant the bolts. | ||
| Absolutely Not. Weather, climber ability, and the nature of the climb/descent should all be considerations before attempting a climb. Bolts would only remove this very significant element of climbing for the sake of 'convenience' and 'quickness'. The addition of these bolts would only demean the routes and remove their character. | ||
| I support this proposal. People top rope the first pitch of Chianti anyway, they just do it off the tree. Sometimes backed up with nuts, sometimes not. Last winter climbers on the west ridge were treated to the sight of a large tree 35-50 tall and approx 16" in diameter that fell from above Sidewall. The tree had rap slings around it. It was far more substantial an anchor than the tree in the middle of Chianti. Without the apporval of this anchor, the tree will certainly die, hopefully not with a climber attached to it. | ||
| I am against this proposal. Just do the whole route! A 2 bolt anchor would also increasing top roping which is never desirable. | ||
| What a great trad line! That little tree is showing some wear after 20+ years of traffic, so let's decide not to reef on it anymore. Placing bolts next to so many stonkin good gear placements is a pathetic idea. | ||
| I support this proposal. I too have seen people rap off this tree frequently, and it is an accident waiting to happen. Parties are still free to do the second pitch. | ||