#100. Replacement/New Bolt, The Untoucha


Information from Applicant

This proposal is to replace a bolt that was once shared by the routes Apple Strudel and The Untouchables. When Apple Strudel was re-bolted, this bolt was logically moved several feet to the left and is now un-clippable from The Untouchables. This section is now quite runout and not in character with its original state. The original bolt was a 1/4 inch aid bolt located in a spot that wasn't ideal for free climbing either route. A new bolt will need to be drilled.



Bolt type: Rawl 5 piece, 2 3/4 x 1/2 inches.



Hanger type: Metolius enviro/camo.

Information from FHRC

This application is made by the first ascentionist of The Untouchables and proposes to install a new/replacement bolt to replace The Untouchables' original fourth bolt. The original fourth bolt was moved as a byproduct of re-bolting Apple Strudel, which shared this original bolt. Hopefully, the topo helps illustrate this somewhat unusual situation.



The Fixed Hardware Review Committee Guidelines speaks to applications regarding existing routes as follows:



--- quote from FHRC Guidelines ---



3.2 Application Regarding Existing Routes. Existing routes shall be maintained to the greatest extent possible in the condition of the First Free Ascent (FFA). Bold routes shall remain bold, safe routes shall remain safe. If good fixed protection existed for the FFA, such gear shall be maintained in its original position. This guideline shall govern regardless of the weight of public comment.



When fixed hardware is replaced, the replacement shall be made in the same position as the gear being replaced. Any fixed hardware must be made as inconspicuous as possible. Occasionally, the person replacing gear shall not be able to use the same placement as the pre-existing piece. In such case the new gear should be placed as close as possible to the original position as is reasonable, so that the nature of the climb is not affected. This guideline shall apply regardless of the weight of public comment.



Notwithstanding the foregoing, relocation of fixed hardware at the request of or with the permission of the first ascentionist is permitted under the Guidelines.



--- end quote from FHRC Guidelines ---



This application would appear to return The Untouchables to approximately the same condition of safety and boldness as existed in the FFA.



The bolt would be installed right of its original position and would replace the original bolt that used to be shared with Apple Strudel. The new bolt may be easier to clip than the original shared bolt that existed at the time of the FFA.



This relocation of fixed hardware is being requested by the first ascentionist.


Comments Received From the Climbing Community

20 In Favor, 2 Opposed
Please do not add unnecessary bolts in Eldorado. It's a sport climb, toprope it if you have to and be happy. Climb Apple Strudel or Ignition or Parting Shot if you're in this area and want bolts. Better yet go to Boulder Canyon which is already ruined by overbolting, this is Eldo, we don't need or want another 5.12 bolt route. I don't want to see more sporties in the Yellow Spur area, it ruins the Spur experience when I take friends up it. Please, don't do it.

The previous commenter apparently fails to understand that this is an existing route. However, the application fails to give much history on the original bolt. Was this really part of the original line, or was it just a stray bolt that happened to be clippable several feet from the line? I assume the review committee is more familiar with the history than I. If this in fact a replacement of an old bolt that originally protected the line, then I support the application.

So the route is supposed to go direct at the start? I traversed in from Appel strudel which was a bit spicy but not hard. I cant vote until this is a bit clearer. (but ti seems I cant submit unless I vote !)

The Untouchables is actually a mixed route, not a pure sport route. The bolt in question was once shared by Apple Strudel and The Untouchables (the last bolt on each route), but it became unclippable from The Untouchables when AS was rebolted. Some time later lots of rock had apparently come off in this section and now there are some big holds from which you can reach way down and left to clip the bolt on AS. This zigs the rope quite a bit, but at least it's protectable should you blow the remaining 20' of 5.9 to the anchor. So, this new bolt is probably not as necessary as it once was, but it would make for a more direct line to the anchor, the way it was originally. It is a replacement of an original bolt, and yes, it is a direct line from the ground. As for ruining the Yellow Spur experience (typical overreaction), replacing this bolt will do nothing to attract more "sporties" to the area. It also should be noted (for whatever it's worth) that the line was bolted on the lead, from hooks, and led before the bolts could be tightened (no wrench). This was during the transitional period (1987) of Eldo climbing history. The photo shown doesn't seem right--I can't figure out what is shown--is this the right photo?



the replacement bolt is truly that, a replacement. additionally, it will be placed by the first ascensionist, so what is the problem?

To the last, post. Your statement is less than true. In the picture above, you can see where the N/R is to occur (the N/R is for new/replacement). In this case, more like new, as the old bolt is where is O is in the picture above. I guess that could raise the problem. Maybe trying to avoid someone lying about a replacement bolt, when it is in fact a new bolt in a new place. Don't stretch the truth.

Good idea. Keep it climbable as it original was before the bolt was relocated.

Seems shady, however, the bolts are already there mine as well make it safe. Doesn't lokk like a new bolt will take away any of that famous Eldo Spice!

This placement makes sense. It is consistent with the character of the route and with the FHRC guidelines for bolt replacement.

good idea. too bad this was not done at the same time AS was rebolted.

Yes, it is too bad that the re-bolting on Apple Strudel did not take into account the impact on The Untouchables. The AS re-bolting was approved by the FHRC in 1992 and their decision was written up as follows:

--October 5, 1992 Meeting Held at Neptune Mountaineering --#6 Route: replace/move bolts on Apple Strudel, 5.12a, Yellow Spur Area, Redgarden Wall Hardware: replace 1/4" bolts with 3/8", move the location of 4th bolt to facilitate clip --Applicant: Mark Rolofson 939-0019, Boulder, CO FHRC: recommended Park: approved Action: placed --(this is from the ACE website historical archives)

This bolt will help return The Untouchables' character to that of its first ascent. I vote yes.

Good idea, and a FA party cleaning up after a rebolting. What's the problem?

If it was there at the beginning then it makes sense to replace it. Simple as that.

This appears to be a new bolt in a new location, not a "replacement bolt", for an old bolt that wore out. However, my vote is unequivocally yes. Moreover, in my opinion the same thing should happen to a number of Eldo routes that were bolted on rappel and botched by the FA party. Two examples come to mind: Roll over Rover, and the route under the Vertigo Rappel. Both these routes could be improved immeasurably by the "replacement" of the bolts to more logical places. Perhaps The Untouchables will give a push to more applications of this nature.

Good idea. I support this decision.

Since we've already "improved" Apple Strudel by moving a bolt, please restore/improve Untouchable. With so much drilling already done on this particular section of Redgarden, the least we can do is maintain both routes.

One other thought: since Untouchables was a hook- bolted route, maybe someone would be willing to add the new/replacement bolt on lead. Hook-bolted routes have their own special charm and logic, and sometimes a perfectly situated rap-drilled bolt makes all the other bolts seem poorly located. Better to preserve the style sketched out by the FA.

Fine with me - keeps this route separate from AS.





replace all bolts while you're at it.